Still Dog People: Who am I now?

A severe dog bite doesn’t end when the wound is stitched or the adrenaline wears off. It keeps going in your sleep, in your startle response to barking, and in the quiet shame that can hit hardest when you’re “the professional” who’s supposed to know better. That’s why we wanted to hold space for Marilyn Gilchrist, a respected dog training and behavior professional, to tell the full truth of what happened when a foster visit turned into a serious attack and a life-altering injury. 

We walk step by step through the incident, the ER reality check, and the long physical healing process, but we spend just as much time on the invisible aftermath: panic around unfamiliar dogs, hypervigilance, replaying every second for missed signals, and the identity crisis of wondering who you are if dogs no longer feel safe. Marilyn shares how quickly she shut down her business, how hard it was to find useful resources for dog bite trauma, and why some online spaces made things worse through blame and sensationalism. 

From there, we get practical. Marilyn explains what helped her most, including a trauma-informed therapist who prioritized safety, immediate coping tools, cognitive behavioral therapy techniques, and hypnotherapy that proved far more effective than she expected. We also talk about support networks that actually show up, returning to work in a way that feels doable, and how her experience sharpened her commitment to listening to dog body language and protecting consent, even if that means disappointing people. 

If you work with dogs, especially aggression and reactivity cases, this conversation is a grounded reminder that recovery is possible and you don’t have to do it alone. Subscribe for more honest conversations, share this with a colleague who needs it, and leave a review with the one part you wish our industry talked about more.

ABOUT MARILYN: 
Marilyn Gilchrist has pursued extensive education in dog behaviour and training, earning qualifications from a number of institutions including PACT and is a registered Animal Training Instructor through the ABTC.  She has a profound passion for trailing which started in 2017 with her rescue dog Lola! Now trailing her Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Scout (who has attained Expert Level status) and Spicy Dachshund Jem, Marilyn has seen first hand the benefits trailing can bring to a dog’s wellbeing. Deciding to focus on trailing in 2022, Marilyn went on to set up The Canine School of Trailing with Rachel Rodgers where they focus on teaching other dog professionals how to add this enriching activity to their businesses.

https://thecanineschooloftrailing.co.uk/

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Transcript

Welcome And Content Note

SPEAKER_01 0:01

In this episode of The Bighty End of the Dog, I have the privilege of sitting down with Marilyn Gilchrist for a deeply personal and courageous conversation about her experience surviving a serious dog attack. Together we discuss not only what happened that day, but the often unseen aftermath many people face, including trauma responses, professional shame, shifts in bite assessment, and the long road to rebuilding confidence and identity after a severe bite. Marilyn is a respected behavior professional whose willingness to share her story opens an important dialogue in our field about safety, recovery, and the culture of silence surrounding severe bites. She has pursued extensive education in dog behavior and training, earning qualifications from a number of institutions, including PACT, that's P-A-C-T, and as a registered animal training instructor through the ABTC. She has a profound passion for trailing, which started in 2017 with her rescue dog Lola, and now her Staffordshire Bull Terrier Scout, who has attained expert level status, and her spicy dashund gem. Marilyn went on to set up the Canine School of Training with Rachel Rogers, where they focus on teaching other dog professionals how to add this enriching activity to their businesses. And before we jump into today's episode, a quick heads up. If you're looking to learn more about helping dogs with aggression issues, head on over to aggressivedog.com because we've got something for everyone. For Pet Pros, there's the Aggression and Dogs Master Course, which is the most comprehensive course available on Aggression, packed with expert insights and CEUs. For dog guardians, check out Real Life Solutions, a practical course for everyday challenges like leash reactivity and dog-to-dog aggression. And if you want full access to expert webinars, live mentor sessions, and exclusive discounts, the Ultimate Access membership is just $29 a month. You'll also find info on a 2026 Canis Conference happening in Schaumburg this October, which will be the world's largest dog behavior conference with tracks covering training, behavior, science and vet care, scent work, dog sports, and shelter and rescue. That's all at aggressivedog.com. Check it out after the show. And finally, a brief content note. This episode includes discussion of dog bites and a physical attack, as well as the emotional impact of trauma. Please take care while listening and feel free to pause or step away if needed. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Bitey Under the Dog. This episode is going to focus on something I think the industry really, really has been missing and uh isn't talked about much. This show we were we are welcoming Marilyn Gilchrist to talk about her experience from a dog attack and how she's coped with it, how she's moved forward with it, what she's learned from it. And I think this is going to be so helpful for many people that don't have a place to turn. So I'm really, really grateful for Marilyn being here and sharing her experience and story with us. So welcome to the show, Marilyn.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

So I guess we should just start out with talking about what happened. This happened back in September of 2022. And I'll let you uh tell the story to the audience and what you experienced. And and again, I know this is a sensitive subject, so I am recommending that the listeners uh are aware that we are going to be talking about a dog attack story. So um anytime you need to step away, I recommend doing that. But um, I'm gonna let you uh tell us your story, Marilyn.

A Foster Visit Turns Violent

SPEAKER_01 3:59

So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Thank you. Um yeah, so it was uh a Monday morning, and I'd I had quite a busy day, and in the afternoon I was going to see a dog who was in foster care. So this was a rescue that I'd done um volunteer work before, and they really just wanted me to go there to check that the dog was okay, that the foster carer was okay, and to help with any, you know, potential training things that would make life easier, both for the foster carer and for re-homing the dog. Um, I will be quite vague about the dog in question, just because it's not only my story to tell. Um, so if I sound vague about that, please don't think it's because I don't care about what happened to the dog. And so I arrived and was greeted by a very happy, waggy, relaxed dog. And, you know, a foster carer who was experienced, but there were just a couple of things that she was uncertain about. The main one being a friend had dropped some boxes that'd been a loud noise, and the dog had barked a lot at that. So we had a chat about that and explained that loud, sudden noises could shock most dogs when they're not expecting it, talked about what happened afterwards, how quickly did the dog calm down and all of those kind of things. Um, and generally had a chat. And throughout the whole thing, the dog love actually lovely body language, um, really relaxed, chilled out, no tension at all. And one of the key things that she wanted help with is when she was walking the dog, the dog would often grab onto the lead. So it looked like previously they'd been taught to carry their own lead. You know, that that fun trick that some people teach them. Um, and the dog, this was a dog who was in rescue after coming out of a home where they'd been abused for approximately eight years. They'd they'd really struggled in the kennel environment and so had been moved into foster care. And so we practiced uh with the dog doing little short walks on the lead. And if the dog grabbed the lead, then I just said, don't get into a game of tug. We don't want any tension on the lead, try and just keep that nice and relaxed. And if it's safe to do so, just drop the lead so that it's not exciting, it's not a game. We practiced that a couple of times, and again, the whole way throughout it, the dog had just nice relaxed body language. Um, whenever she dropped the lead, the dog then just let go of the lead as well, and you know, everything uh seemed great. And so after about an hour of just general foster care chat, looking at the dog in the environment and being very happy with what we saw, I got up to leave. And as I did so, the dog grabbed on to the lead again. So, as we'd done twice before, I dropped the lead, and in that split second, um, everything changed. It was one of those moments where I looked down and I think every muscle had gone tense in the dog, and all I remember thinking was, I'm in trouble. Then very quickly the dog latched on to the front of my leg. And I had this bizarre moment of looking down and thinking, their teeth are in me. Like that's weird. I couldn't feel anything at that point, so there was no pain registering, but everything went very quiet in my head. It wasn't in real life. Um, it was but it a bit like almost like I was underwater in terms of that sound that I wasn't registering anything other than the fact that you know the the dog had latched onto my leg. I do have a bit of prior experience with separating fighting dogs. And the one thing that just came straight away into my head was choke and hold in position. So I kind of just wanted the dog to let go. I didn't want to rip them away. So I did that. It seemed like an age that nothing happened other than the dog was still on my leg. And then eventually they let go. I don't think it was that long in reality, but it felt like an age.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Was it grabbing sort of your lower leg, sort of in your shin area?

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Lower leg, sort of shin, bottom of the shin area. And as I grabbed it and then thought I have to secure the dog, I wasn't the only person in the room, so conscious that other people were at risk at this point, and managed to navigate the dog back through a door, at which point I was at sort of head height with the dog. And again, remember thinking I've got to let go, get my arm back, and shut the door before the dog manages to come at me. And at that point, I think the dog had just gone, you know, their mind had gone, they were just full on in attack mode. And fortunately, everything worked smoothly, and I was able to get my hand out and shut the door, and we then had to barricade the door because the dog was about to come through it. So once everything was safe in that regard, I then looked down and couldn't actually see anything. So I thought, oh well, that's not too bad, is it? And had a seat and then sort of looked up at the foster carer's face and thought, oh, she looks really upset. And it was one of those weird moments where she just went, We've got to get you to a hospital. And I said, No, I think I'll be fine. And she was like, No, we've got, you know, we've got to go. And she said she would take me, sent off a quick message to my husband to say, I've been bitten by a dog. I'm heading to the hospital. I think you're gonna have to come and pick me up. Sorry. And it was looking back, I think the thing I've learned from that is give more information because he drove the entire way. It was about an hour's drive for him to the hospital thinking it was my face. And the entire way was thinking, don't react, don't react, don't react. So yeah, with hindsight on that bit, I would have given more information for him.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Is your husband kind of the more laid-back type where he's gonna calmly drive to the hospital, or was he the other side?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

No, he's very calm. He would have been quite, you know, steady driving, but he did say he practiced his poker face the entire way, not knowing what he was gonna walk into.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

So

Hospital Triage And Hard News

SPEAKER_00 11:16

when I got to the hospital, shock had started to set in. Um, and they very quickly took me through to triage and had a look at my leg. I hadn't seen it at this point. And the nurse who was looking at it said, we're gonna have to get you through to X-ray immediately. And I just said, Well, why do you have to get me to X-ray? And as I said it, I thought, you can see the bone, can't you? And he's he was like, Yeah, basically, there there wasn't much muscle or tissue left. It was bone at the front. So that played through, and they then sent me off to another hospital to go under the care of a plastic surgery team. And I had to wait. I won't go into the the details of the our wonderful NHS system and the delays that you you have. Um, ultimately they looked after me. So, do you accept that there's the hours that you have to sit and wait? But they managed to get me in for an operation on the Tuesday morning, so it was almost 24 hours later. Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

And when I came out of general anesthetic, they told me basically all they could do was a very small partial closure because there was nothing there to recover. And that the wound would would just have to take time to close naturally. Which was even at that point, I nothing registered because I was sort of like I just want to get home now.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

So the whole time it sounds like you didn't really look down. No. Right. Yeah. And do you think that was because of the adrenaline rushing, or you're are are you kind of the type that you know doesn't like to look at your own injuries type, or is was it you think more adrenaline rushing, the shock of it, the I think it was I didn't want the reality to hit.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

I'd seen my husband's reaction when he did arrive, which was momentary relief, as he realized it wasn't my face, and then looked down and saw my leg and was like, ooh. I also saw this was a bit gruesome, but the bits of flesh that were on my clothing. And so I knew it wasn't good. Yeah when they had to clean the wound, you know, it's one of the worst parts of it.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yes. Uh were you wearing jeans or anything? Yeah. So this is this was through jeans. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So so you made it through surgery or you went through surgery?

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Yeah. And was able to go home the same day.

Trauma Triggers And Industry Shame

SPEAKER_00 14:01

And it was on that drive home that I think the impact of it started to hit me because there was uh a man walking his dog, and I was in the car, so we were driving along, he was on the pavement, and I looked out and saw the dog and immediately started to panic, even though there was no risk at all. And I think that was a big shock. You know, I worked with dogs, I love dogs, I never panicked at being around them, and I just didn't even want a dog in my vicinity that I didn't know. Fortunately, my own little dog, I didn't have those feelings. So the first, you know, when I got home and got settled, I was like, just bring her through. She needs to know that I'm here and okay. Yeah. And I need her next to me.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

So you found comfort with your own dog, fortunately. Yeah. Despite now, now this dog I'm assuming was a larger size. You don't have to mention the breed, but based on what you're telling me, it was larger and yeah, medium and medium size and very strong. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

You know, I do I still think about the dog a lot and did throughout constantly throughout those first few days and weeks. The dog did nothing wrong. I don't think I did anything wrong in that instance, but we were dealing with a dog who'd had eight years of abuse of trauma. Well, I don't think I did something wrong. I did something that the dog thought was going to lead to something bad. And I think that's taken a bit of therapy to get to that point.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

And I really appreciate how you put that because that's a hard part. That's the hard part to get to because there's there's always this underlying tone of blame or understanding exactly what happened, or I should have done this or that. But there's moments exactly everything you're telling me it fits into the client cases I've had where it's nobody's fault. It's it's just this perfect storm of events, the you know, what's happened to the dog in a prior life. And you as an animal professional going in, you know, so you're not doing anything that's that we know as professionals not to do with a dog, right? That's that's like oh we're gonna I'm gonna do something purposely to you, which can happen, unfortunately. But so I l I really appreciate the way you put that because it's it's I think it's important for people to hear that. So thank you for saying so, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

And I think anybody who's gone through something like that, nobody will judge you more than you judge yourself. I can replay the entire thing like a film in my head, and I still will go over every second and think, did I miss something? But yeah, I think ultimately sometimes when we're dealing with dogs that have been through that amount of trauma, then what you do isn't necessarily what they think is happening, it doesn't necessarily correlate. And that's when it's tough because we like to know why.

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Let me ask you this too, in that regard. How much did being a professional, so you have a background in training and and you're you've worked with dogs, many, many dogs, and so you how much did that impact your thought process too? Because I know when I've been bitten, you know, as a professional, you go back and you're you're really second-guessing things, you're just questioning yourself, you the imposter syndrome, all those typical uh feelings come into mind. How much do you think that's played a role in this process for you?

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Huge amount. Um, yeah, there's there's shame. There's that point where like I don't want to tell anybody because they're going to blame me. They're gonna think I'm lying about what I did. There all of that comes into play. I purposefully told people, friends who are trainers and behaviorists, I went through everything I did. And you know, with that, what would you have done? What did I do in that moment to try and understand? Everybody I spoke to said they would have done the same thing. There wasn't anything different, which in that moment still doesn't really help. I think it takes a while for you know, you have to work through that in your own time and for me with help from other people.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Yeah. And let's so let's back up a little bit too. In the immediate aftermath, you mentioned this sort of profound um what'd you call it, fear or distrust of dogs that you did not know?

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah, fear and panic. Um, I didn't want dogs I didn't know around me at all. So

Closing The Business After The Bite

SPEAKER_00 19:08

I got home on the Tuesday. On the Wednesday, I closed my business down.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

And messaged and emailed all my customers and said, I something has happened. Um, I'm gonna have to cancel everything, I'm gonna refund you everything, you know, and and left it at that. Annoyingly, most of them said they didn't want refunds, they would just wait until I was ready. And I was sort of there going, No, no, I don't want this. Take your money back, I'm done. Um, but they wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Well, that and that speaks volumes about you, though. So it's like, you know, we're gonna stick with Maryland, so we'll wait.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Um uh and they were probably, you know, I'm sure you didn't give the details of what happened and you weren't ready to talk about it with your especially with your clients. But so in that moment, you're kind of just like, I'm done. I'm done with dogs. Yeah. So how long did that last for you? When did you start to feel like, okay, maybe I could do this again, or or what am I gonna do next? kind of questions.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

So it took a good few weeks to think I could start working with dogs at any point in my future. But it was just a couple of days later that I realized I needed I needed help and I needed to recover. And it was following a checkup at the hospital, and it was the first time I'd seen my leg. And that was a big shock. I think that was the moment it reality hit about the extent of the injury. I I had a friend coming around that afternoon. I cancelled that. I said, I can't be around people at the moment, and I went home and I just started Googling, looking for other people who had gone through something similar. Because I thought I need examples of where people have come back from this and how have they done it? Can I have a nice one to ten step list of what I need to do to recover from this? But there wasn't anything there that I could find. So then I started searching for therapists in my area. It just felt like it wasn't something I was going to be able to do by myself. You know, friends and family had been amazingly supportive, but with the best will in the world, they didn't have the skills to get me through it either.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

And I wanna I wanna talk more about that in just a moment. I do wanna ask you about how you felt. There's a lot of similarities in how they describe, especially immediately after something like this. And uh Jumpiness or, you know, just really like seeing every little, you know, as as trainers, we're good at reading body language, right? So we start to see all the little details, like like he just suddenly held his breath. Is that what does that mean? And then, you know, you start to get very kind of jittery or worried about it. And I and I I remember one of my bites was from a German shepherd, and I'd been working with so many German shepherds, I felt very comfortable around them. But then after, you know, it took me some time to start working with German shepherds again because I was really just like second-guessing, like, am I reading this right? Is this what what what's what's this dog saying? So that was part of it too, you know, just uh being very cautious about what I'm doing. So my movements were very calculated and just stiff, and I thought the dogs were like, oh no, they're seeing that I'm a little bit worried here now. They're gonna so so talk us through some of what you felt.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I for the first couple of days, I think it was a bit of a blur. I wasn't sleeping. So I I couldn't get upstairs, I couldn't walk at that point. So I was on the sofa downstairs and just not sleeping at all. I think there was a the pivotal moment when my husband came down on that Wednesday morning and just said, How did you sleep? Are you okay? And I was about to say, Yeah, I am fine, because that's what we say. And I just stopped myself and and just thought, I'm not fine, I haven't slept, I can't close my eyes. Every time I do, it replays, I'm exhausted, and it just sort of all everything came out in that moment. I'm glad I did that because I think it just meant that from that point on I could be honest about everything. But feelings-wise, I just wondered who I was if I wasn't around dogs. You know, I sort of thought, well, I cannot work with dogs, that's fine. But if I can't be around them, if I can't hang out with them, if I don't have that joy just from being in their presence anymore, then who am I? Because that's a complete shift in my entire personality. That's not just a change of job.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

It's your identity, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah. And I didn't really know, I didn't have an answer for that, and I didn't know how to answer it. And I think I just felt numb mainly for those first few days.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

What about grief? I mean, because that's probably a it feels like you're losing something so integral to yourself, you know. So you work with dogs, and now you're probably they're at some stage experiencing grief of loss of that part of you, like meaning working with dogs. Did you experience that? Did you go through that as well?

SPEAKER_00 24:49

I I didn't so much for myself. I did for the dog involved. That was hard knowing the outcome. The dog didn't make it. The police got involved. You know, that's still tough to think about, to talk about.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Because you there's so many what-ifs with that. What if the dog had been in another family in initially? What if the rescue had got to the dog sooner? You've got a trail of what-ifs as long as is your arm. So I grieved a lot for the dog, especially during those last few days.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah, yeah, I think that's um that's a part of the work we do that is not talked about much or enough. And and it just must be so profound, all of the different ways you had to look at this because you're the quote unquote professional here. You're also the person that's been bitten. You're also involved in the outcome for a dog that is in foster or rescue, right? So it's not necessarily with a guardian already. And so yeah, I just the amount of ways you would have to look at this in your unique position is it's it's incredibly difficult, but it's also not talked about enough, you know. It's just yeah. Because it's the unfortunate landscape of you know the dog training industry is it's it's hypercritical, let's face it. And so anything we do, we I mean, we can't even use a certain colour leash without getting yelled at these days. So you know, this kind of situation is not something you can talk about publicly because of the potential for that. And that's certainly when you're in a vulnerable place, the last thing you need, right? Let's get into a little bit, you know, we talked about how you've do the immediate impacts, but what was the time frame or like the timeline? Because I think people also maybe have been through uh an experience like this or have recently experienced a dog bite at some level, and they're saying, How long is this gonna take for me? And it's obviously different for every person, but I think it'll be helpful for people to hear that side of it. Like it's not like it's just being like tomorrow I'll be fine. It takes time to it because this is trauma, this is a traumatic event, and it's so different and unique to each person. So for you, yeah, what was your timeline like?

Therapy Timeline And First Big Steps

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So the attack was on the Monday, and then on the Friday, I contacted a local therapist, and she got me in the next week. She did say that she had gone to her own mentor to say that I needed help, but what I didn't realize is that they normally recommend a delay between a traumatic event and starting therapy. And so she was actually recommended by most people not to take me on.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

And then her mentor said to her, You've spoken to Marilyn. What do you think? Can she cope with this? And she said, I think she can cope with it, but more than that, I think she needs it. And I'm so grateful that she took that chance because I did need to start to see my journey back. And so I was able to start working with her just the week after. And immediately it helped. But I would say it was a over the course of about four weeks, where I sort of slowly friends would come around with their dogs who I knew, and I would be okay with that. And then they would start to talk to me about, you know, what are you gonna do with your work? And I would just brush it off. Don't want to think about it. And it was a sort of a slow burn, and there was a a one-day workshop that I'd signed up to do, which was play. So using play with dogs. And it was my friend that had organized it, and I said, Look, I can't even walk, so I I certainly can't be up playing with dogs, so I'm just not gonna come. And she was like, No, no, it's fine. You can just sit and watch, you can still come. And again, I was like, No, no, it's fine. Um and she says, Well, we've arranged it, so your husband's gonna drive you, you can sit and take part, and she said, if at any point you're uncomfortable, then you I'd crutches. So she says, You get up, and she said, I immediately take you home. No questions asked. So, you know, I said, Okay, I'll do it. I remember that drive going there in the morning. I think there was probably about 10 points on it where I almost said, just turn around. I can't do this. But I think uh, you know, I'm stubborn at heart, so I went and it was difficult. I felt, as you mentioned earlier, I felt very aware of the dogs that were there. Everybody knew, so there was a lot of just acceptance that I wasn't gonna be interacting with dogs, and they were very good at keeping their dogs at a distance, you know, not kind of forcing the issue. I at that point I didn't necessarily feel as I felt uncomfortable more than fear. I was very aware of the dog's movements, of how they, you know, their body language, you know, were they uncomfortable, were they stressed at all? Very aware of my exits. Not that I could move fast, but yeah, you hyper assess situations.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Yeah. Hypervigilance is probably where I was thinking. Yeah. And that was just four weeks after the incident, that workshop. Wow. Yeah. That's impressive.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

I think I'd had two or three therapy sessions during that time though. Um, it was quite intensive.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

And I want to get more into that as well. I think that's going to be incredibly helpful information once we start talking about what type of therapy and what's available out there too.

Sponsor: Dog Academy

SPEAKER_01 30:48

But I do want to take a moment to hear a word from our sponsors, and we'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by Dog Academy. If you're listening to this podcast, you already know aggression cases need more than confidence and good intentions. They need science, structure, and a commitment to force-free methods that don't wobble when things get hard. That's what Dog Academy is built on. They're a national network of certified trainers working under one promise: teach, love, grow. Force-free, positive reinforcement only, and that policy holds for every case they take, including serious behavior work. Whether a family needs help with a reactive dog, a resource garter, a fearful rescue who started to shut down, or a multi-dog household that stopped feeling safe. Dog Academy trainers meet people where they are and build skills that actually stick. Skills that survive the new baby? The holiday guests, all of it. Their trainers are spread across the country and held to the same standard, which means a referral to Dog Academy is a referral you can stand behind no matter the zip code. That consistency shapes how they train, how they hire, and how they support every family they work with. If you're a fellow professional who refers out, Dog Academy would love to be one of your options. If you're a dog owner listening because you're trying to understand your own dog, they'd love to help you too. Find them at DogAcademy.org. The dogs in your life, the ones on your caseload, in your home, or both, deserve a team that won't compromise on welfare to get a faster result. Alright, we're back here with Marilyn. We were talking about what outlets or what resources there are available. So we talked about the timeline and a very impressive one where you're just four weeks later able to attend a workshop. And I think that's you know, knowing of the cases that I'm aware of, like in similar situations, it can take much longer for some people. So clearly, you know, you're we're not saying you're totally fine four weeks later, but that's a a significant step. Um, and it sounds like a lot was the help was from your therapist to get to that stage. So talk more about that as much as you

CBT And Hypnotherapy That Worked

SPEAKER_01 33:14

can. You know, I know we're getting into more private moments or discussions here, but in terms of the the type of therapy, because there's different therapists for that specialize, just like trainers, right? Um they they have expertise in certain areas, but in my experience, there's there's very few, maybe a hand. You can count on one hand in this entire planet how many people actually might have any experience, let alone of specialize in that. So, did your therapist kind of do some research on this or have experience with dog attacks or bites or things like that?

SPEAKER_00 33:46

She didn't. Um, she had experience with trauma in general. From talking to her, I immediately felt safe with her. And and sorry that I I feel like I could be completely honest with you. Um, one of the key things that she did, which I didn't really understand at the time, but later she explained, she met me in the street to take her into her, she had an office in her garden. And I sort of thought, oh, that's weird, interesting, great. And we got in there and she said, Apologies for meeting you in the street. I have a dog. If you'd come to the door, they would have barked. And she said, and I didn't want that to trigger anything. Oh wow, yeah. And so even just from that little thing, it was a little thing that felt huge at the time. And that really helped me feel safe with her and think you you understand the nuances of what we're dealing with. We initially just worked through some coping techniques. So did some cognitive behavior therapy things to help me when I started to panic, things to help me on a daily basis to sort of, you know, stay calm and focused. And, you know, if I woke up anxious, just little techniques to help. And so that helped, you know, just I think for me, having tools immediately that I could start to use, just being out and about was good. We did a lot of hypnotherapy.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

And it wasn't something I knew anything about. I was sort of wasn't entirely sure how it would help, but it was absolutely transformative for me. It's she worked on just so many different levels, not just focused on the actual event, but I guess just encompassing everything about me. And you know, when I finished therapy, I had six sessions with her, I felt better than I'd felt for decades. I was like, this is amazing. I am hooked. And I I since then have gone back um on an occasion where other things were happening in my life and my reactions weren't I hate to use the term normal, but I guess they weren't where what I thought they should be. And she helped me understand that it's all part of the same event that you when you've gone through something like that, then your brain will respond to things differently. And it's about understanding that you can use the same techniques. So we joke with it about her that some people will go on spa days and have a massage, but you should also just go and have have an hour with your therapist every so often and just have give your head a spa day.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Um I love that. That's such a great way to put it. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

It's it's really helpful um to have somebody who isn't. I quite like the fact that she was not involved in the industry at all. She had no knowledge of the industry or how it worked other than the fact that she had a dog. For me, it made it easier because I didn't have to fear judgment.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Interesting you say that. Yeah. And that speaks volumes again about the state of our industry and how it can be such an unsafe space in some ways. And it also speaks volumes. I want to say, you know, the therapy is an amazing thing. And it just everybody should do it, regardless of what you're doing. 100%. I am and it's just like, you know, getting that massage, or like you need to maintain, or it's maintenance. And and therapy is maintenance for your brain and your emotional health and your well-being. And yeah, just like we need to exercise. We need, you know, you need somebody to talk to about these things. So what but six sessions, I mean, that's great progress, you know. But you've revisited and you you've maintained things. So and that's really does speak volumes about your resiliency as well, you know, and being able to see those kind of changes in that time period. And I'm not assuming I'm making assumptions that you're, you know, that that's full healing physically and emotionally, but that it's still very impressive, especially in the cases again I've been involved with and seeing how sometimes how long it can take, many years, years and years for people to even get close to a dog again.

Rehab And Returning To Work

SPEAKER_01 38:17

So so let's give just touch base on the physical aspect. How long did that take to heal? And are you able to actually walk like normally again? And and like what was the target of that?

SPEAKER_00 38:30

So for the wind to close over, it was five months of going from open wind to, as I always said, to waterproof again. In terms of being able to walk, they got me into physio a couple of days later and you know, walking with crutches. So physically I was able to move around without crutches, I think, within probably about three weeks. After two, after two weeks, I signed up to a walking challenge that was taking place in up in the October. I wish I'd taken a picture of my husband's face when I told him I'd signed up to that. He was sort of, I think his comment was something like, Should you not be able to walk to the toilet first? I was like, yeah. Fair point. But again, I think I needed a physical challenge to push myself to do that.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

You you self-labeled yourself as stubborn before, was that that you said? Okay, okay. Um, about five five months of good amount of rehab and and getting up on your feet again. And uh so you had therapy sports. It sounds like your husband is wonderfully supportive too, so um in understanding. Um talk about your support system. So you said you mentioned trainers, yeah, but yeah, I'm sure you reached out to some very trusted friends and trainers because this is not something you know you're gonna share publicly. But tell me about that. How did that help? And and what was the aspect of that that was most helpful for you?

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah, so I had um there were two in particular who I reached out to, good friend Cal Thorpe, and she's a dog trainer and has been so supportive sort of from the start of my career and become a very good friend. She would come round with her dogs. I only had one dog at that point, pick up my dog and take them out round the fields so that Scout was still getting a load of exercise because my husband was trying to work full-time and look after me and look after our cats and look after our dog. And so Cal would just sort of turn up every couple of days and make sure that Scout got a really good run around. And I think a lot of people say, Oh, if you need anything, just ask. Cal didn't wait for me to ask, she just turned up and did stuff, which is great, because you often don't ask. Oh no, we're fine. It's okay. You know, no, we're coping. And so she was great. And it was she was the one who arranged the workshop that I ended up going to. I mean, if you think I'm stubborn, then you should meet Cal. She's definitely is, but she I would say, with good grace and a bit of force, steered me back towards working with dogs. And what I didn't realize at the time is that quite a few of my customers were talking to Cal and saying, What can we do to help? And she just said to them, when she's ready, book everything. Which they did. So as soon as I sort of started opening slots up again and classes up again, they were fully booked.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

Tell me about that. What did that feel like for you? It it you know, I'm sure the support felt nice, but working with dogs again, what was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Well, by that point, I'd made a big decision. Um, so one of the other people who was really supportive was Rachel Rogers, who's now my business partner. We used to chat through what me coming back would look like. And the week that the attack happened was the first week with my business where my income had sort of reached a point where I felt like I actually had a business. You know, I'd sort of had this made-up figure in my head that, well, if I'm bringing then that every week, I'm doing okay. And so the week that I closed my business down was the first week that I hit that financial target. But I wasn't necessarily enjoying everything I did. And so I thought if I'm coming back, I'm gonna come back and do just do what I love, which was trailing. And at that point, I also taught Hoopers as well. So I put on the Hoopers classes, which sold out, and I put on some trailing sessions, which sold out. It was quite overwhelming, but also I just thought, oh god, I've got to do it now. But I think I also needed that because if people have booked and paid money, well, you've you've got to turn up. And I was really worried before the first one, you know, again, a lot of angst about am I gonna walk in there and have any kind of reaction. I had had a few reactions before that when dogs had barked or lunged at me. The panic had set in and I'd sort of, you know, using all my techniques, but it's still a horrible thing to go through, an exhausting thing to go through. But fortunately, they were all regular customers and I knew the dogs. And as soon as I started arriving, and the dogs were so happy to see me, you d I just got caught. Up in just the joy of being back doing something that I did genuinely love.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

It went from September to the incident, how many months or how long was that to that first class?

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Uh six weeks. Six weeks. Six weeks.

SPEAKER_01 44:15

That's impressive.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Do you think again that's your stubborn side? You know, you just sort of like, I don't know if I should do this, and you're like, I gotta do this.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

It sounds like you're very I mean, that's pretty much what went on in my head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:27

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

I don't know if I'm ready. So I very quickly just put a Facebook post up saying, okay, class is gonna start on this date, and then everybody booked, and I was like, oh well, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

Was there something, some moment that, you know, besides your stubbornness, because not everybody has that, let's face it, everybody's gonna be, I'm just gonna do this and just do it. It sounds like that's a good part of your personality where you're just like, if I'm gonna put my mind to this, I'm gonna do it, you know, and I'm just gonna stick it out. But I think besides that, is there a particular tipping point or moment where you're like, okay, this is why I'm going to do what I'm going to do again? Can you think of that?

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yeah, I think it was when from speaking to Rachel a lot and making that decision that ultimately I wanted to focus on on man trailing and pet trailing, that then I did just reach the point of if you're going to do this and you've made that decision, what does waiting another two weeks or month or two months do? It was a moment of either you do this and you see if it can work, or you don't and you tell everybody that you're done. And I think given myself that ultimatum, I just thought I'm not I'm not telling people I'm done, in which case I'm I'm doing it and I'm moving forward. So with the support Cal, the support of Rachel, but mainly my husband, when I turned round and said, So I've I just started to earn money, but I'm probably gonna go back to not having much as I sort of re-establish what I'm doing. Are you okay with that? And I mean he just looked at me like I was daft and was like, Well, yeah, do what do what you need to do. So I was like, okay. And I think there's if you have a great support network around you, they just helped hold me up and nudge me forward, you know, and it was that firmly but with a lot of love.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

Yeah, yeah. And you answered the question I was gonna ask next is where do you find the strength to just go for it like that and um you know, describe your support network beautifully. And and I think that's so important for us as trainers in this kind of lonely industry sometimes where we don't always have a lot of people directly. We have so much online presence, right? So that's for a lot of us and so many of our friends are in distant places, but we don't have that local support network. And I think that's so crucial in the work we do for these moments and beyond, you know. So that's a good takeaway definitely for this episode is to build that support network and and and offer it too, you know, like there's people that that can use your your help when you're doing well, you know, and everybody has ups and downs in life, and we have to support each other. So let me ask you this you're uh going back to before the incident to where you are now. What's the most profound change that's occurred in you that you've taken away from this? And for yourself, we'll talk about for yourself first, and then we'll talk about your advice for other professionals. But for you, what's changed the most?

SPEAKER_00 47:50

I think I am much more open when I need help now with the people that I really trust. And I think it goes back to that first morning when there was that question, how are you? And there was that split decision of do I go with I'm fine or do I tell the truth. Previously I would have been much more, yeah, yeah, I'm fine, everything's great. I think now I I know when things aren't going so great, and I'm more likely to ask for help. You know, whether that's when I went back to my therapist and said, Look, I'm having these these reactions to things that just don't make sense to me. I said I almost don't know why I need to come and see you. I just know I need to come and see you.

SPEAKER_03 48:46

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

And I think just being, you know, even just on a day-to-day basis, if I'm not feeling great about whatever, because it happens, you know, nobody floats through life on a cloud of fairy dust. We all have things going on every day. And I think being able to, to be honest to people who are close to you, to say, you know, especially if I've just snapped their head off for something, you know, for no particular reason, to be able to turn around and go, you know, I'm sorry, I know I've just done that, and this is why. And can you just bear with me? I think I'm much more open to that kind of conversation now than perhaps I was in the past. Um, you know, people can't help you if they don't know that you need help.

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Yes, yes, that is very wise.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Um called take it.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Yeah, yes. Coming back to that, I want to get a little bit more into the specifics of what's helped. Because I think the listeners that have uh gone through this or we we mentioned support network, being open to finding help with and then the therapy aspect is so crucial, I think. Um so a two-part question.

Bad Resources And Better Boundaries

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Resources that you've discovered because I know you were looking for resources and you still are very much interested in this for helping other trainers or anybody in in that's um been a part of a dog attack or a dog bite. So let's start with that actually. Uh what have you discovered for resources out there? And there's not much, right?

SPEAKER_00 50:17

No. So disappointingly, I didn't really discover uh anything. You know, I discovered the therapy that I've talked about. I discovered the podcast, your podcast that I listened to, which did help. But other than that, it struggled. I think flipping it, there were a lot of resources that I would say to stay away from that aren't helpful. So I found some groups of other people who had been bitten, not people who worked with dogs. And I thought, well, that could be useful. I think I lasted 20 minutes in that group.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

That was not useful at all. You know, so I think sometimes it's it's quickly understanding what things are not gonna help you and just coming away from it. You know, there were some other articles from canine professionals talking about how if you work with dogs and you've been bitten, it is your fault. And in using those words, yeah. Nobody who's gone through that needs to be told that. You know, we're doing that ourselves. We don't need anybody else, you know, hitting us over the head with a stick because all of that is happening, and I feel like those things aren't helpful. I think blame is natural as a human. Yeah, I know before this I did very much jump to, but what did the human do? You know, who's to blame for this? Yeah, hindsight's a great thing. Um, but it doesn't help. Understanding does as much as you can, but blame doesn't solve anything.

SPEAKER_03 51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:00

So I think, yeah, from a resource perspective, there's not a huge amount out there. But I think if you're looking and you're finding things that are not helping, come away from them as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 52:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Um, because otherwise you're just torturing yourself.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

That is very good advice. Uh I think because you're an animal professional, right? That that this is a part that doesn't get talked about a lot, is that you obviously care about dogs versus if you join one of those groups, you're probably going to get a different theme where like it's all of these dogs or this particular breed and they're all evil and we all hate this breed and they should be banned, and all the that's the that's what happens. And so it's uh it's not the right environment because they don't understand dog behavior. And I don't blame them either, because that's their experience. It's it's you know, and we see it culturally, see mass hysteria like these animals, we won't say even dogs, these animals all need to be eradicated because they're dangerous or they're this or that, and so there's a lot of um sensationalism in and overreacting to these things. So that's the conundrum, you know. So you're in a you're in a challenging position, you know, you care for these animals, and so there's you know, people want to blame or say you're the blame or the dog's to blame, but in the situation, especially this, it's you know, there is no blame, it's just the the perfect storm that's set, you know. And it sounds like at least in my experience too, is the therapists that tend to be the best fit for these kind of scenarios, is the the the therapists that understand trauma understand childhood trauma as well. But but I think trauma in general, just how to under work with that aspect is really important because let's face it, it is trauma. So so in that regard, the specifics of you know, different therapists, of course, just like trainers, have different modalities and protocols and ways of you know, you mentioned cognitive behavioral therapy and hypnosis, um EMDR is another one that's very common for trauma. So you know, being grounded and present is a good exercise. Like if you see a dog, you'll be like, okay, I'm safe, and reminding yourself you're safe here and you can you practice like I can smell this, I can see that, I'm in the moment, right? So you know, if you can kind of describe like a moment you've had and you've gone through one of those processes, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 54:13

Yeah, I often dogs barking will you like I'll still jump at that. And so then it's very much, as you said, I go, okay, so what's the situation? Where's the dog? What's their body language? What do I need to do, if anything, in this situation? So it's running through all of that quite quickly. The more you do it, the better you get at it. It's like anything. If you practice it, you get better at it. Trying to control the panic. Um, initially, the panic would come on really quickly. And there has been situations where another rescue that I was working with on a meet and greet, and I had to excuse myself and, you know, just walk out and got in the car and just fell apart at that point. So it doesn't always work. There will be moments, you know, that everything just sort of takes over. But the more that I've practiced it, the better I've become. I think one thing where I am so much more effective at is reading dog's body language, but not just reading it, listening. There was often moments where you know people would go, Oh, it's okay, my dog's friendly. You can say hello. And I would kind of look at the dog and think, I'm not sure you want to. But there's that sort of fear of offending the human. And now I would just offend the human.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Yeah. I'm right there with you.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

And I I'll sort of but I I won't deliberately try and offend them, but I'll sort of say, Well, your dog actually, your dog's already said hello. They've leaned forward, they've sniffed my leg, and they've taken a step back. So they've said hello and they're fine. So I think I'm much better at reading those situations and doing what I think the dog would prefer rather than the human.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

Which ultimately has led to much better relationships with a lot of my clients' dogs because then they realize that you know I'm not gonna run over and grab them by the cheeks and you know, rub the top of their head, or um, you know, and now they're the ones that will come over and shove their head into my hand.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Which is is lovely, but yeah, it's always on their terms. And there's I've still got some clients, dogs who come trailing, and they don't want anything to do with me. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:45

They're like, just lay the trail, let me do it, and then I'm going home.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

I think the same thing too. You know, I don't want to be rude to people, especially at like conferences or workshops. You see somebody's dog and they don't want to say hi, they see you, but you know, they they kind of you you feel bad for not saying hi to their dog, but sometimes the dog's telling you, you know, hey, you're there, I'm here, and that's fine. I don't need to come over and say hello to you, you know. Yeah. And the other part you were mentioning too really does make you think, you know, you mentioned you still startle sometimes at dogs barking, and because of the experience you've gone through. And if anything, as humans, it allows us to see what the dogs are going through. You know, the dogs, this particular dog, the nine so many years of experiences and trauma, and how things can happen with that dog and their experiences and their trauma and understanding that and it and how many years and years it can still occur after. So, you know, I really appreciate you sharing your experience because I think it just also allows the listeners to get a deeper insight into dogs' experiences and that these things don't just you can't turn them off like a light switch, right?

SPEAKER_00 57:53

No, and yeah, I think one thing that I I especially thought a lot about when our second dog we adopted a little standard dashined cross chihuahua. No idea why, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. And he came as a puppy, and puppies are lovely, but it's hard. You know, having a puppy isn't easy, and he was not an easy puppy. And I would, I think every day would think, okay, if I'm finding it hard, how hard is he finding it? And I think that's something that I think a lot now when I'm dealing with dogs. You know, and and sometimes it's the well, you know, if the guardian is finding it hard, how hard is the dog finding it? And try and flip it around to get people to understand that no dog is doing this, you're doing any kind of behavior quirk, you know, insert whichever one you want because they want to make your life harder.

unknown 58:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:50

You know, they're doing it because they have these feelings that they can't either rationalize or control or you know, that they don't understand something. So yeah, I think that's one of those things that just keeps going around.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 59:04

You know, if we find it hard and we kind of know the world and the environment a bit better, then how hard are the dogs finding it?

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Yeah, yeah.

How Marilyn Is Doing Now

SPEAKER_01 59:14

I have two more questions before we wrap up. And first one is how are you doing now? So 2022, September of 2022, just as a reminder when this happened, how is Marilyn today?

SPEAKER_00 59:28

Doing good. So since it happened and I got my own business back off the ground, I've also formed a partnership with Rachel Rogers. Um, so that's how the Canine School of Trailing came to be. We now run instructor courses to help other people offer trailing, you know. So I think that one decision to focus on what I love has actually enabled me to, you know, just drive forward and build business and keep being involved with dogs and help create a community, which the trailing community is amazing and very supportive. So yeah, things are good. You know, I think one of the reasons that I mentioned to you that I wanted to talk to you and get this story out is that if you are going through something similar now, then you know, your story will be your story, but you can help write it. You know, you don't without wanting to sound corny, you can help steer certain parts of it and have a good ending. Not that I'm ending anything, I'm still going, but yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:38

And in that regard, I was gonna ask you, you know, what in all of this, what is your advice to other professionals? And I think you summed it up nicely, but is there anything you would add if you could go back, I guess, and tell yourself something five years ago that you would want to know today, or just for the professionals that are listening, any trainers or people working with dogs out there?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:58

Yeah, I think if it's if you're in a similar position, if you can get professional help, get professional help, but lean on the community around you because there will be canine professionals who will be supportive and helpful. We all know that the dog industry can be you know tough. It's a tough place to be in at times. We don't always uh see the great side of it, and I think sometimes that gets a bit too much time. But on the whole, my experiences with the dog profession have been amazing and the support has been amazing. So I think if you can reach out and and get it and you can move forward. Our industry, I do believe, is fundamentally good. You sometimes just have to wade through a bit of muck to find it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:56

Yes, yes, I agree, Marilyn. Thank you so much. Um, where where can people find you if they want to reach out?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

They can find me at the canine school of trailing. So that's our website. It's also all our socials. Yeah, you can find me there.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:14

Perfect. And I'll link to those in the show notes. Thank you so much again for coming on and sharing your story. I I really appreciate it, and I know this is going to be so helpful for so many listeners out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:25

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:27

It was an incredible honor to sit down with Marilyn and hold space for such an honest and important conversation. Her courage is sharing the full reality of her experience from the physical injuries to the invisible emotional aftermath, which shines a light on something many professionals endure quietly. So I'm deeply grateful for her willingness to speak openly about trauma, recovery, and what it truly takes to return to this work with strength and wisdom. And if you're ready to go deeper into understanding and helping dogs with aggression, visit aggressivedog.com. Whether you're a professional or a dedicated dog guardian, you'll find everything from the Aggression and Dogs Master Course, which is the most comprehensive program of its kind, to expert-led webinars, informative articles, and the Canis Conference, happening October 7th through 10th in Stromburg, Illinois, with both in-person and virtual options.